[Abbey Onn — 0:00]

Listen, in the last number of years there have been a lot of Russian-speaking immigrants that have come. There are people making aliyah [immigration to Israel] every day. You've been here now for a number of decades. What is the number one piece of advice you would offer someone who's considering or just made aliyah?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 0:13]

I mean, we were very different from the local society. You know, the way we looked — we were ex-Soviet citizens, a bit different. Soviet Union, Middle East. It's so funny to say "Soviet Union," because you feel it was like hundreds of years ago, you know?

‍

[Abbey Onn — 0:26]

It's the history books.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 0:28]

Yeah, it's something you read in the history books, but in my teudat zehut [ID card], it's written: place of birth, Soviet Union.  And look I at this, and me?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 0:35]

We felt such freedom coming here and being able to express our Judaism without hiding it. You know, you can breathe. I can't imagine myself living in another country and not feeling comfortable saying, "I'm a Jewish woman." I mean — this is crazy, you know?

‍

[Abbey Onn — 0:52]

Do you think your career would have looked the same, had you not moved here?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 0:55]

Oh, no. Of course not. I have no idea who I would be if I had not moved here.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 1:09]

Welcome back to Yalla, Let's Go! — the podcast that Erica and I started to remind ourselves, and maybe other people, why we made aliyah. We are speaking to everyone from venture capitalists to athletes, journalists, cookbook authors, people working in tech, and more. And today, we're super excited to welcome a special guest, Lena Russovsky. But before we jump in, I want to ask Erica, pulse check — how are you feeling about living in Israel?

‍

[Erica Marom — 1:34]

So I had a really unique experience last week. I spent a couple of days in the hospital because my son broke his elbow and had surgery.

‍

Boy mom.

‍

It was really just so unexpectedly unique, because it was such a melting pot of Israeli society in the most extreme way. You had Jews and Arabs working together — doctors, nurses, patients. Jews from all walks of life: ultra-Orthodox, secular, from every country you could imagine, with Arabs. Everyone waiting together in the waiting room. Everybody was treated exactly the same. Everyone was getting the exact same standard of care. All the doctors and nurses were working together. It was just — everybody together.

‍

And it felt like: I wish everybody who says there's an apartheid here could just come to this medical center. This is one of Israel's biggest and most professional medical centers — see what daily life actually is like in this hospital.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 2:33]

We can say not everything is perfect in this country, but there are moments where you're like, I just want to take a snapshot and let everybody see it.

‍

[Erica Marom — 2:40]

Exactly, exactly.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 2:40]

How's Adir now?

‍

[Erica Marom — 2:43]

Adir is home recovering with a giant cast on his arm.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 2:46]

Okay. We're sending him love.

‍

[Erica Marom — 2:48]

Yeah.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 2:48]

Okay. We're super excited to welcome Lena Russovsky, an olah [an immigrant to Israel] from the former Soviet Union who made aliyah at the age of nine, and since then has worn many, many hats — including journalist at Kan, one of our big broadcasting stations, activist leading one of the largest online communities, and more. Lena, we're excited to welcome you to Yalla.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 3:09]

Hi. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm excited as well.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 3:12]

Thank you. We are going to start with our hard question. If you can tell us your life story in under a minute.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 3:18]

Oh my God.

‍

So let's do it — yes. Our family came to Israel in 1991. I was nine years old. We made aliyah to Israel from Moscow. It was still Soviet Union. It was like, you know, something from the history.

‍

And I grew up here. I went to school, I went to the army. I have a first degree from Tel Aviv University in biomedical science — it was my first and ongoing career in biotech. And my second degree is from Tel Aviv University as well, in gender studies. So these are the other things I'm interested in.

‍

And I'm also an activist and a social and cultural entrepreneur, and during the years I founded many nationwide projects — for olim [immigrants to Israel], for elderly people, for younger — you name it. And one of, I think, my biggest achievements and biggest projects is our online community, which is not only online but also offline. It was recognized by Meta Israel as one of the most influential women's communities in Israel a few years ago. We have more than 56,000 people, who are mostly people like me — who came here with their families when they were children or teenagers. What's called the one-and-a-half generation. I guess we will speak about that.

‍

And many, many social and cultural projects came out of this community and that we led over the years. So yeah, there are many things I'm interested in and curious about. I'm also a high-tech entrepreneur, so there are many things I'm doing.

‍

[Erica Marom — 4:58]

So you didn't choose to come here. You were put on a plane by your parents and brought here. What do you remember about those first weeks or months that you were  living in Israel?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 5:09]

Listen, this is crazy, you know, when you think about that. Because when you are a child, you understand reality — but not very deep. You only really understand when you grow up and can recall the things you went through.

‍

But I have to tell you — we had a very, very hard arrival journey to here, because it was just before the Soviet Union fell apart. So nothing was really sure. I mean, we were already in the airport with all our things, with many people with us, and they almost canceled the flight. It was crazy times — really crazy times in history. In world history, yes, and in our personal history, and our family history.

‍

And we went through Budapest, and we were waiting there with all our bags — the elderly and the children. And when we came here, I was nine years old, I came from Soviet Union. We knew from books that in Soviet Union everything was very strict.

‍

And we came here and there was a lot of mess, of course, because many people came that day — it was the first in July, 1991. And we came out of the airport, out into Israel. And I looked around, and there were a lot of people wherever — gathering, waiting for taxis, waiting for rides, not knowing where we were.

‍

And the two first things I experienced as a child: one is the heat. Well, I experience this now also. I came out and said, oh, it's so hot outside. And the other was that I saw the Israeli flag — and it was torn, and it was dirty. And I was shocked. As a child, I was shocked. Because, you know, if you think about Soviet Union, all the symbols of the country were precious. And to see the Israeli flag — in the airport, where they welcome people — not clean and tight, but a bit torn and not clean. It was shocking for me. I was like: how can it be, you know?

‍

[Abbey Onn — 7:17]

It's still probably that way today. You went from — as you said — biotech, to radio presenting, to a degree in feminist studies, to leading this community. Lots of hats, not a straight line. Can you talk about how you built your career?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 7:32]

You know, sometimes we speak about our career as if it's something that is separated from us — like, there is me, and there is my career. But it's the same, you know.

‍

And I think that I live my life from passion. From things that I feel that are important. And I think I'm blessed to have an opportunity to make things that are also making good for others. It can be scientific research to help people — now we are working with neonatals, infants and things like that. And on the other hand, to give a place for women and for different voices on my radio show and in our community.

‍

So I can't really tell you how I developed my career. I was just listening to myself and striving to live with meaning. I always wanted to live with meaning, with a sense of meaning. I think this is the most important thing. And I feel privileged — although I made it with my two hands — but still, it's something about character, I guess, or whatever.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 8:46]

I love that answer. I want to ask one more question. Do you think your career would have looked the same had you not moved here?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 8:59]

Oh, no, of course not. I have no idea who I would be if I hadn't moved here, because... we are a product of society. Although we don't like to think about that, because we are so individual and we are so special. And we are — we are very special.

‍

But if we had grown up in a different place, we would be differently special. I can't even imagine what kind of woman I would be if we stayed in Moscow. I would be a Russian Jewish girl in Russia. I have no idea how I would look, what I would do, and how my life would look.

‍

It's a nice mind game to think about that. But I can't even imagine who I would be.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 9:43]

Yeah, it's super interesting. I just think this notion that you're being driven by meaning — I think it's a really beautiful way to explain it.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 9:49]

Yeah. Thank you.

‍

[Erica Marom — 9:50]

So let's talk about the community that you built — "Russian Women Without a Sense of Humor," which has almost 60,000 members. First of all, what is this name? Do Russian women not have a sense of humor? And what drove you to start this community?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 10:03]

Well, first of all, we do have. And I think you can feel I'm a bit funny also, you know — I'm also writing standup already for a few years. So if you hear me giving a standup show, that's me.

‍

But I'll just say that I founded this community 12 years ago, and it was a kind of response to something that was going on on national TV, where I found myself working after a few years. You know, life goes in circles.

‍

And there was some kind of remark — very, very disrespectful toward Russian-speaking women. And everyone laughed in the studio on the television show. And when I saw it, I was amazed. How can they say something like this on national television about such a big population?

‍

And I had the rage, you know — because I live from passion, and passion has different expressions. And I said: okay, this will not happen. I started to write letters, and I started to speak with people related to that show, to the national television. And I founded this community because I wanted to gather people — just to express what they think about these kinds of things.

‍

And "Without a Sense of Humor" — because many times humor is used as a weapon, everywhere. Humor is used as a weapon to humiliate someone, to make someone feel uncomfortable. And when the other person responds to it, you say: "What's the matter with you? You don't have a sense of humor." So I was saying: you know what, I don't have a sense of humor. But if you will be funny, I will have one. So this is the thing.

‍

[Erica Marom — 11:56]

So actually, on our call before we filmed this, you said something I wasn't aware of at all — I'd love if you could talk a little more about how Russian women feel they are discriminated against in Israeli society.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 12:08]

Yeah, well, it's much less now. But it was crazy in the 90s, and it's still kind of a wound — in our hearts, and in the hearts of our families.

‍

There are a lot of stereotypes about Russian women, Russian-speaking women. A lot from the former Soviet Union. I mean, we were very different from the local society. The way we looked — I was a child, but our parents — the way we looked, the way we were. We were ex-Soviet citizens, you know. So it was a bit different from Israel, from the Middle East. A big difference, Soviet Union, Middle East.

‍

The people's perception was very — women were sexualized a lot, were harassed a lot. There are researches made that harassment toward Russian-speaking girls and teenagers was two to two-and-a-half times higher than toward other people.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 13:11]

Yes, yes, that's true.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 13:12]

And you know, not only among us — but women, many, many times, are silent about these kinds of experiences. And also when you are an immigrant, oleh is a kind of immigration, it is an immigration. You are in a weak situation, especially when you're coming from such a different country, not knowing anything. So when you are weak, and you are a woman in society, and you have no back no financial back, no support systems — you are very easy to become a victim of people who take advantage of the situation.

‍

So this is one of the things we were very dominant in our society for discussing and for speaking about that — because it was very important to me to give a place to women, to hear their voices. And people — because our online community is in Hebrew. For us it's easier to speak in Hebrew, although I'm fluent in Russian — but we grew up here. So many journalists and many public figures and many people were reading our community and hearing what we were going through, and our mothers and grandmothers, et cetera.

‍

So yeah, it was a hard experience for many women. That's true.

‍

[Erica Marom — 14:30]

So the community is kind of a place where all of these women can come together and share their stories and share their experiences?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 14:36]

Yes. And during the years, our community became many things. First of all, we have a lot of gatherings in person — not every week, of course, because we're also working, and this is volunteering work, if you can say it like that. But we have many gatherings of hundreds of people every time.

‍

In our community, it's a place where you can share your aliyah story. You can speak about the differences you have, the struggles you still have with your parents — because our parents become older, and we still need to help them in some kind of way. Some kind of cultural discussions, for example, many people our age already have children who were born here. So what do you do about language? Do you teach them Russian or yu don't teach them Russian? You yourself don't always speak Russian fluently, so how can you teach them? But you want them to be able to speak with their grandparents. So it's a thing.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 15:35]

So I think you're getting at the next set of things I'm really curious about — which is you were given this idea when you arrived that you were coming to a melting pot, and that wasn't totally true for your community. And similarly, this idea that you mentioned earlier, this idea of of being part of the one point five generation. Can you talk a little bit about that experience? Kind of what you were sold versus the realities?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 15:53]

You know, because we came from Soviet Union — I know it's so funny to say "Soviet Union," because you feel it was like hundreds of years ago. Yeah, it's something you read in the history books. But in my teudat zehut, it's written: place of birth, Soviet Union. And look at this and I say, "Me?" But nevertheless, we came from Soviet Union and we didn't have information about that. We didn't know melting, we had nothing, it was a closed society, you know? My father always says: we didn't know where we go — but we knew where we were going from.

‍

So we had no information about the melting pot or anything that was going here. I don't know how our families did it, I can tell you that.

‍

But I do want to say a few things about the melting pot, because it's one of the most persistent ideas in Israeli society. And I think we are already living in a post-melting-pot period. Because you cannot melt identities. They learned this. You cannot melt identities. You cannot erase people's past, because they will come back to their past — it's part of who they are in the present, and it's part of who they will become in the future.

‍

So it's about hierarchy, and it's about power and power struggles in society. There's a lot to say about this, but — not now. Anyhow, if I can conclude, I think it's very important for everyone to struggle to keep his own identity and also to integrate. It goes together, I think. And then you can enrich the society you live in, because you can bring the cultural baggage you had in your past life.

‍

Many times it's a struggle. For example, for our aliyah — it was the biggest wave of aliyah in Israeli history.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 17:56]

Yes.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 17:57]

Approximately 1 million people came here. And one of the criticisms of our aliyah was that we are keeping our language, we are keeping our culture. We are speaking Russian among ourselves — or Ukrainian, you know. And we go to the shows, and we host... I host right there, I'm already hosting in Russian as well. So you know — "you came to Israel, speak Hebrew." And I said, "Yeah, I will speak Hebrew, but we will speak Russian as well. I think it was possible because it was already in the 90s, and not the 60s and 70s, when the country was still young. So we had that possibility. And also we were a lot of people, so there was more power.

‍

But I think it's important to keep the baggage you came from, because it will enrich your life — and enrich the society as well.

‍

[Erica Marom — 18:49]

So because you were brought here by your parents and it wasn't a decision you made — was there ever a time when you felt annoyed that they made you come here?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 18:57]

Not like annoyed. But I remember when I was a child, from time to time I was missing my home — I wanted to go home. But I understood that we won't go.

‍

It's not that I was annoyed, because when you grow up here, this is your home. Russia — the place where I was born — is really important to me, because it's my birthplace. It's my first experiences in life. But this is my home.

‍

So I was sometimes mad at my home — as I'm mad at this home now as well. It's part of love-hate relationship. But it's mostly love. I can't really imagine myself living in another place, although I've had many opportunities along the way, career-wise and et cetra. But I think I know how it is to be a foreigner in another country.

‍

And it's not a foreign — we were a minority. Jews were a minority in Soviet Union, and there was antisemitism, but not only — we were a minority. And I know we felt such freedom coming here, and being able to express our Judaism without hiding it. It's such a freedom for your personal... I don't know, like your breath. You can breathe.

‍

And you can't really imagine it. I can't imagine myself living in another country and not feeling comfortable saying, "I'm a Jewish woman." I mean, this is crazy, you know.

‍

[Erica Marom — 20:34]

So along those lines — was there ever a time, as you said, everyone has a love-hate relationship with their home, especially here, especially the last few years — was there ever a time you considered moving somewhere else?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 20:46]

No, not really. No, not really. I mean, no. I traveled a lot, in the east and in the west, and everywhere. But no, I didn't consider it — because it's nice to feel at home, and I feel at home here.

‍

[Erica Marom — 21:02]

Have you ever been back to Russia?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 21:04]

Yes, one time. I went one time — when I was, actually I was traveling. I had a very long journey when I was almost 30 years old. I left everything and, because I'm driven by passion, which we know already, I left everything and I went to India, to Nepal, for half a year. I was backpacking over there. And then I came back, and there was a family decision to come to visit Russia — because we still had some friends, some relatives, et cetera. And I went there — 20 years after coming here.

‍

And it was a very interesting experience, because I have a childhood memory. And when I was going back, I was curious about myself — how I would feel when I came to our house, to the yard where I played with the children, where my first memories as a person were formed. And I wondered if I'd feel an ache in my heart.

‍

And I didn't have when I came there. And it was interesting, and I thought about it afterwards, and I understood: it's because my life as it was there, my childhood — it's not here anymore. It passed. The surroundings are still there, but me as a child, my family, everyone young — we are not there anymore. It went away.

‍

So that's why I didn't feel anything. I just looked at it and it was nice to see, and that's it.

‍

[Erica Marom — 22:42]

But this is your home.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 22:44]

Yeah, here it is.

‍

[Erica Marom — 22:44]

What do you love most about living in Israel?

‍

[Abbey Onn — 22:47]

That's what I was going to ask. In the love-hate relationship, what's the thing that brings you the most joy?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 22:50]

The most joy? Just that I can feel... I feel that I can be myself. I don't know how to explain it. And I also know there's some kind of familiarity — which is sometimes annoying, because people are asking you questions and you're like, who are you? Who are you?

‍

But the other side of this coin is that you know you can approach anyone on the street and ask for help, or ask for anything, and they will be there for you. And you feel also connected. You have a history with people here. You are related to them.

‍

If I were to go live in, I don't know, Belgium or wherever — what is my connection with the people, except for all of us being human beings? What keeps us together? How am I related?

‍

That's why I became an activist and a social and cultural entrepreneur. Because I care. I care about the society I live in. I care about the country I live in. That's why I put my time and my energy to make this place better. And I hope I succeed in a way.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 23:57]

You absolutely are.

‍

Listen — in the last number of years there have been a lot of Russian-speaking immigrants that have come, and there are people making aliyah every day. You've been here now for a number of decades. What is the number one piece of advice you would offer someone who's considering or just made aliyah?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 24:12]

Let the process go through you, don't struggle so much. I mean, you will struggle but don't make it a war. I don't want to use the word relax, because there's nothing relaxing about aliyah. But just be part of this process. Just understand that you are going through a process in your life now and just enjoy it because it's interesting. You will become a different person a bit afterwards so just enjoy the show. Enjoy this journey as much as you can. Because the difficulties will come and they will go along all our life but this is a kind of journey and you made the decision and you need to stick to it. Don't let doubts come into your head and into your heart. You will think about this later, but just enjoy the process and be part of it.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 25:09]

I like this answer.

‍

[Erica Marom — 25:09]

So when you're 80 years old and looking back on your life, what's something that you think will have been true because you made aliyah that wouldn't have been true if you had stayed in Russia?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 25:19]

I became the person who I am. And I'm pretty much okay with who I am.

‍

So — I'm happy I'm here, and I got all these opportunities. And you know, it's not enough to have opportunities — it's also important to recognize them and to take them. So I'm happy that I have the opportunity to live among my people, that I'm part of them. I mean, I think it's a blessing.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 25:49]

Thank you. Thank you so much. We are going to jump into some rapid fire — we're going to ask you questions, and we want a one-word answer.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 25:56]

This is the next hardest thing we're doing.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 25:58]

I don't know how to speak shortly, but I'll try.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 26:01]

That's okay. We're giving you a challenge. All right — favorite Israeli food or snack?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:05]

Hummus.

‍

[Erica Marom — 26:07]

Favorite Hebrew word or slang?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:09]

Yalla [let's go].

‍

[Abbey Onn — 26:11]

We accept. Favorite place in Israel?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:14]

Tel Aviv.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 26:16]

What does Shabbat [the Sabbath] look like for you?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:18]

Relaxation.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 26:20]

The thing you miss most from Russia?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:25]

The culture.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 26:27]

What's your "only in Israel" moment, in just one sentence?

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:29]

Just to hug strangers on the street because something happened — happy or sad.

‍

[Erica Marom — 26:32]

That's very, very Israeli.

‍

[Abbey Onn — 26:36]

Lena, thank you so much. This was a joy and a huge learning opportunity, and we're grateful for everything you're doing.

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:42]

Thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you.

‍

[Erica Marom — 26:44]

And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with everyone you know. Yalla, let's go!

‍

[Lena Russovsky — 26:48]

Yalla, let's go!

‍